Jim Suttle – OmahaNext
A while back I agreed to do an interview for former Mayor, Hal Daub about his support of Robert’s Skatepark for the upcoming election of Mayor.
I later found out that it was a bit controversial if he really supported it in the first place, and this concerned me since the reason I agreed to do it was because I’ve always vowed to help anyone out that has helped support skateboarding in Omaha… especially during a time when skateboarding wasn’t widely accepted.
I wanted to know the full story, so Hal invited me up to his office to talk about it. He was quick to give the credit to Marc Kraft, which was nice to see. We worked a lot with Marc, and the skatepark would not have happened without him.
Hal ended by basically saying it was passed while he was in office. If he was really against it, it wouldn’t have passed. He was very kind, very respectful and surprisingly down to earth when we met.
I was impressed.
His campaign talked with us at SecretPenguin about doing their design work, but they continued to want spec work and we decided to pull out. They then went with hiring an out of town agency.
This was a bit odd to me. Why hire a non-local agency for a local election? I’m not concerned that they didn’t hire us, I’m more concerned that they outsourced the work.
I later met up with my friend, Gary Di Silvestro. Without his help as well, there would be no skatepark in Omaha. He worked side by side with all the skateboarders, and helped organize us and get us in contact with the people of the city.
I found out he was helping with Jim Suttle’s campaign, and I had the opportunity to meet with Suttle and he was a very nice guy. I was impressed with his hard work on getting the venues to be able to stay open for people under 21 to enjoy live music.
Music is one of the many things that makes Omaha such a great place to live, and I really liked his approach on this issue.
Suttle already had branding and a website, but they needed some help on a separate website about Suttle’s vision for the future of Omaha and how the local election effects you, and after talking and learning more about what Jim Suttle is about, we were happy to work with them.
It just makes sense for a candidate for Mayor to hire local businesses for a local campaign. That’s something I can definitely support.
Jim Suttle, you have my vote.
Here’s the website we created, OmahaNext.com
The PLAY page is my favorite, with the skateboarder rolling across and doing a kickflip.
January 26th, 2009 at 6:11 pm
Great post Dave. I like the part about hiring companies outside of Omaha to do sites that feature Omaha. I find it’s in poor taste. Sometimes the site is good, sometimes its horrible. It’s very true that its not a matter that we lost the job, you and I have competed for and referred work to one another with the idea, may the best for the job win. It’s more the fact that Omaha companies are losing out and when you buy local the money stays local and helps the community.
Sad to see Hal do that. Great job on this site.
January 27th, 2009 at 8:37 am
The reason Omaha companies lose out on web development is because they are overpriced, which is a fact.
January 27th, 2009 at 8:46 am
Hi Tom, actually the web companies in Omaha are substantially lower in cost compared to most in the nation.
This is why there is an influx of work coming from businesses around the country that are hiring midwestern companies.
January 27th, 2009 at 8:57 am
Tom Jones, If you look at other large cities you will find Omaha is quite cheep in comparison. Yet the quality is just as strong, if not better as a whole.
Good design with a strategy is more valuable than a site with little of both, or a template site.
You get what you pay for. Good design doesn’t cost you much in the grand scheme. Its an investment. It makes you money and positions your company for long term growth.
In this case for Daub it shows a lack of responsibility in supporting Omaha companies, why would the public support a Mayor or a campaign that feels Omaha is overpriced and undercuts those businesses. It’s also true that money spent in Omaha greatly affects the local economy, the big picture of the city is more important.
This is not a personal attack on Hal Daub, as I am sure he isn’t the one making this comment, and I feel is a good person. Its about the portraying your remark as factual that Omaha’s overpriced. Please support these claim with documentation. Pricing and Ethical guidelines is a great book for comparing the national averages of design. You will find that Omaha is underpriced.
http://www.aiga.org/ Has some great information about pricing comparisons.
January 27th, 2009 at 9:07 am
Really, Mr. Jones?
My guess is that your experience had more to do with the level of quality and little to do with location.
Weeeeeeeeeeeee!
John Henry Müller
January 27th, 2009 at 9:20 am
Tom, I wonder where this fact is stated? Are there statistics somewhere that are reliable to back up what you are saying? I find this curious and am interested in what you say since Omaha seems to be more of a sustainable place of living when it comes to finances and business compared to larger cities.
January 27th, 2009 at 9:24 am
Omaha web services are overpriced?! This is an educated comment by someone who I’m sure would penny-pinch the industry into ruin.
I routinely do many different types of creative work nation-wide and I am always having to adjust my rates UP to make sure I am not undercutting local industries elsewhere. Seattle, Chicago, NYC, Denver… all cities that have to admit to much higher creative rates & pricing.
From the salaries of in-house creatives and designers to the rates that independents and small studios can command, Omaha is on the very low end. We fight to keep the work going when constantly threatened by uneducated masses who hold it over our heads that their nephew can do what we do because he just got a new shiny MacBook and took some art classes his senior year!
And shame on Hal Daub. SHAME! You are running for the mayor of Omaha and with the economy and civic unrest being what it is, you take business OUT of our city. Business that may help you win the seat to run this very city? Then I say you get no vote from me. Mr. Suttle, welcome to office!
So to wrap, spare me that the rates are too high, or come back with evidence proving this. Mind you, most of the posters here can call on direct, factual data to back up our argument. So proceed if we must.
January 27th, 2009 at 9:35 am
Its just my opinion. Im affiliated with no one person, campaign or group. I have friends who go to UNO and UNL. They are in web design, MIS majors and they have made those same remarks. I think there is some really good webdesigners in Omaha and some really bad ones. I think that for the most part the good designers charge a fair price, but the bad ones are the ones that bring down everything.
Dave is a kick ass webdesigner and I love reading his blog and getting his twitters on what is going on with Secret Penguin and the skateboard park.
January 27th, 2009 at 9:44 am
Tom,
You could say that about any city. There are good designers and bad designers in Chicago who charge the same billable hour. I think instead of attacking a city you should hold the bad designers accountable for their poor work. People call out bad products all the time that are overpriced.
It also bothers me Dave that Hal didn’t hire in state. If you want to keep the local economy going how about keeping the money here. And can you say BarackObama.com knock off. That is baaaad.
January 27th, 2009 at 9:51 am
You’re basing your information on what a couple of student think? Hummm… It seems like misinformation is still a designers worst enemy.
January 27th, 2009 at 9:53 am
Not really pertaining to this convo, but an interesting read to establish the importance of design, especially now.
http://www.smeal.psu.edu/news/latest-news/feb08/mktgrcsn.html
January 27th, 2009 at 9:59 am
Furthermore, I do think Hal should have stayed in state. That is a slap in the face to designers in Omaha.
January 27th, 2009 at 10:35 am
Dave and Secret Penguin have done an excellent job with this site, as it captures the reasons young professionals are supporting Jim Suttle for Mayor. Thanks for the mention on your blog, Dave. The reasons the first skatepark was built at Roberts Park were many, but the occupant of the Mayor’s office at the time was not a positive factor. Skaters, parents, Student Democrats, skate shop owners and Marc Kraft worked hard to get a veto-proof majority on the City Council to fund the park design and construction. Thanks for the opportunity to set the record straight.
January 27th, 2009 at 11:50 am
What’s good about using local designers is they are going to have a better grasp on the local culture than an outside designer or firm. Granted, good design is good design no matter who does it, but a local designer can add some detail or nuance that someone on the outside would miss. Plus, a local designer (you would think) would put a little more thought into a campaign site since they’d have a vested interest in the politics. Jim Suttle’s site grabs your attention right away and conveys an interest and passion for Omaha. The other sites come across as templates or rip-offs. Some innovation would be nice, especially if you’re running for mayor and plan on leading the city in the future. I’d be more interested to peruse through Suttle’s site because of the detail, design and commitment put into it.
I also find it funny that it only took a few comments for Tom to go from “fact” to “opinion” about the cost of local designers.
January 27th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
Maybe people just don’t understand the difference between “Design” and “Creative”. For example, this new Hal Daub site is a much much better design than his previous site, but it is in no way “Creative”, because it is a complete rip of the BarackObama.com site. And it is not completely the fault of Hal Daub’s campaign, but rather the design company they chose who told them that this design is what they needed. Which it isn’t.
Anybody can “design” something, but only some can “create” something.
I can’t do either.
Also, it is not a fact. And people that use statements like that don’t deserve to be replied to. It is an unfair way to debate.
Also, Dave looks kind of chubby in the photo at the top don’t you think?
I can’t wait for a forward thinking Omaha! So excited!
January 27th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
It’s disappointing that Daub’s campaign did not choose to work with a local designer for his site. You would think that if someone was really committed to their community – as a mayoral candidate should be – they would choose to support local businesses, which would in turn support the local community. Seems a little contradictory to me.
January 27th, 2009 at 4:56 pm
This blogpost was featured on NE Creative:
http://necreative.typepad.com/my_weblog/2009/01/in-an-post-on-dave-nelsons-blog-about-a-web-project-secretpenguin-did-for-candidate-for-mayor-jim-suttle-more-on-the-project.html
January 27th, 2009 at 6:18 pm
I have voted for Hal in every election he has been in since his first. I am now voting for Jim Suttle because of this embarrassing fiasco. Dave’s father…Bob Nelson
January 27th, 2009 at 9:57 pm
Sometimes good local designers are not overpriced but rather clients do not always know the value of good design and what it really costs.
January 28th, 2009 at 8:07 am
Wow. You can see right through ol’ “Tom Jones”.
Pretty obvious he’s from Daub’s campaign. Sort of a testament to how much those guys don’t get it.
You can just see him covering his tracks with each post. I want a mayor that is forward thinking and understands what people want and can listen.
It’s obvious Suttle can listen. Nice work on the site, Secret Penguin.
January 28th, 2009 at 8:26 am
In regard to the website… great work. I really love the organic feel in the animation. I dig it and I follow it.
In regard to the comment room drama. I think, and I know we know, that it’s not about Mr. Jones opinions but about companies and individuals that bargain the graphic/web design market looking for a less than $300 website just because they don’t understand, and perhaps don’t care, about anything else beside having a dot com.
I knew some guys that would offer a website for $250. The process: Change the header image and color scheme, place it in template and it shouldn’t take more than two hours. By the way, none of the designers knew what HTML was. Yes, you get what you pay for. Now if you are small local business neglecting your brand, guess what? there is competitors that don’t.
Simple Omaha example:
- Nomad Lounge: http://www.nomadlounge.com/
- Nico’s: http://www.nicoomaha.com/
I knew the people in charge of both brand… I’m pretty sure you can tell what happened by now. =)
January 29th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
I think in this case, it might be about Tom Jones’ comments, since he is obviously from the Daub campaign, and they just don’t get it.
No way would they have a website like they do, if it didn’t work for Obama. But Obama’s campaign understood design and used it correctly.
If this is the way he will run the city, then no thanks. I want a mayor with fresh ideas, not a bastardized rehash of other peoples’ old ideas.
January 30th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
i think the site you created for suttle is simply amazing. is there a group of you guys (small biz owners) that meet on a regular basis? i head up a new project called Change That Works and would love to meet some of you guys.
i totally love all your work and walked by your offices the other day–its so good to see creative, talented young folks doing real work here.
February 2nd, 2009 at 2:42 pm
Hi Jane!
Thank you very much. I’m glad you like the site!
There’s a group of us that meet sporadically, but not really on a regular basis.
I’d definitely be interested in meeting. I believe Matt Helt sent you an email through LinkedIn. Thanks again. Looking forward to talking with you!
February 2nd, 2009 at 3:34 pm
Hal Daub’s team went with another web designer for two reasons: 1) They were affiliated with Daub’s LOCAL direct mail and graphic design company, and 2) They were 1/5 the price of Secret Penguin. I’m sure Hal would have loved to have had a free page designed for him by Secret Penguin, but Secret Penguin never offered that to Hal’s campaign, as he did Suttle’s.
I’m not aware of any industry where it’s considered professional to publicly trash your potential clients because you didn’t win their contract.
February 2nd, 2009 at 3:44 pm
Hi Enrique,
Thanks for your comments.
We did not offer Suttle’s site for free. They paid for the OmahaNext website, and we did not offer any discounts.
And I want to make clear that I never trashed Hal Daub or his campaign. I simply stated the facts that they hired a non-local agency for his design, and that this concerned me.
I also said “He (Hal Daub) was very kind, very respectful and surprisingly down to earth when we met. I was impressed.”
Please don’t twist my words around because of the design community’s response to this.
February 2nd, 2009 at 3:50 pm
It should concern your potential clients that if they enter into preliminary talks with you–as a finalist among other web design companies–that if they do not finally select you they are fair game on your blog.
February 2nd, 2009 at 3:55 pm
This has nothing to do with potential clients not selecting us.
I even mentioned this in my post, “I’m not concerned that they didn’t hire us, I’m more concerned that they outsourced the work.”
I was posting as a concerned citizen for an upcoming mayor to have his campaign outsource work outside of their own city.
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:04 pm
Then please correct your statement (which has misled many people already, to read the postings) to point out that the Daub campaign went with their web designer because they 1) were affiliated with Daub’s local (OMAHA-based) direct mail and graphic design firm, 2) were 1/5 the price, and 3) had a pre-existing relationship with the campaign (they had already built the campaign’s exploratory committee site).
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:12 pm
I don’t know if Hal Daub’s campaign wants to flaunt how much they paid for a template site. If we made the same site for all of our customers the prices would be much much cheaper as well.
Omaha doesn’t want to be a template city. We want to be unique, our own thing. We don’t want a template mayor.
Just kidding, but it sounds pretty huge right?
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:14 pm
No, it’s unprofessional. All I’m sayin’.
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:19 pm
You’re right, Hal Daub’s website is VERY unprofessional.
hehe
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:23 pm
Personally, I think plagiarizing a site’s design is unprofessional.
Obama’s version the site was much better anyways.
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:29 pm
Nothing we have said has been a lie. You on the other hand…
We blog about our experiences, we try and support companies that keep things local. We try and wear clothing that is made in America, we buy fruit and veggies that are made in Nebraska (when it is available, gosh I love the farmer’s market!). This blog may be “public” but the people that read it our also interested in this kind of thing. If we didn’t think it was relevant we wouldn’t have posted it. And we have nothing but respect for Hal Daub. We just want people to know what we think, what we care about, and what we want our elected officials to care about.
Also, we think Hal Daub has done great things for the city. We also think that if he gets elected he will continue to do great things for the city!
I am not even sure who I am voting for yet. I still need to see who is going to help bring Omaha into the future and promote recycling, mass transit, etc.
Why do our trashcans downtown say “Recycling It’s O! So easy”! They are trashcans! Why not spend the money it took to make the posters on PUBLIC RECYCLING BINS!
I read that around 75% of recyclables in L.A. our recycled. Omaha is probably closer to 2% if that. Why can’t a small city like us be better at recycling than a huge city like L.A.?
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:34 pm
According to Suttle’s NADC filing he’s “outsourcing” his payroll work to SurePayroll, Inc. based in Glenview, Illinois. Will you tell the world he’s bad now too and go with Vokal?
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:35 pm
See for yourself:
http://nadc.nol.org/ccdb/search.cgi?page=formb1d&IDNO=08CAC01237&OFFREC=01/29/2009
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:41 pm
Cody, you raise good questions about the city’s recycling program. Why don’t you ask Councilman Suttle what he’s done about it during the last 4 years he’s sat on on the City Council?
Does no one remember the recycling program we had in the 90’s, under Hal, or am I in the twilight zone?
February 2nd, 2009 at 5:15 pm
I was a little young in the 90’s so I am not familiar with the recycling program back then. From the sound of it though it must have been great.
Though I am more interested in the future of Omaha than the past. I hope whoever is elected does more to move us forward as a city.
I will do my research on the candidates though.
Thanks for the tips.
February 2nd, 2009 at 5:30 pm
As Dave Nelson’s father, I am impressed with Dave’s integrity (and talent). This dialogue is interesting. I do not try to influence Dave and his friends but I am impressed with your passion and remarks. I am also impressed with the simplicity and honesty of Dave’s style…I have watched it for a lifetime and am proud that his words match his actions, beliefs and integrity. Perhaps there is misunderstanding in how all this evolved…the real issue is to search for the truth. I would remind you that “two people can look at the same set of facts and arrive at totally opposite opinions.” Keep stating your opinions but don’t be surprised if everyone doesn’t agree…in fact, be surprised if they do. The passion that has been generated among the young professionals in our city is healthy and encouraging. Keep up the good work!
February 2nd, 2009 at 5:33 pm
I am finding it a bit concerning how words are being twisted to make it sound like Dave was trying to take advantage and bash Daub. I think Dave’s approach to the situation was respectful and factual. He did not take cheep shots and I am sure Hal himself would find it a bit concerning that you are saying false statements in reference to Dave, about doing Suttle’s site for free and bashing potential clients if the contract doesn’t go his way.
You are entitled to your opinion and to have a rebuttal. People that read blogs openly welcome them. That is what makes a public forum interesting. Debate, but don’t say things that are untrue.
February 2nd, 2009 at 6:19 pm
Wow, it sure is interesting to see Daub’s campaign interact on here. So sad.
This remind anyone of angry old McCain?
February 2nd, 2009 at 7:02 pm
I’m sorry if my tone was off, and I stand corrected on the “free Suttle website” issue; I was misinformed and I apologize. On the other points I raised, though, I do think they are legitimate and I would ask you how you would feel if you were on the receiving end. I am not “Daub’s campaign,” I’m just someone who’s seen Hal take too much blame for too long for things he doesn’t deserve. I was set off by the Twitter I received about the Suttle website when I knew Dave had a video on Hal’s site and then when I heard more about how Hal had met with Dave and this whole thing coming out of nowhere. I will go away now; I just wanted to say I thought it was a raw deal.
February 2nd, 2009 at 7:21 pm
Dave, you’re looking a little chubby in that picture. Better stick to sugar-free Red Bull.
February 2nd, 2009 at 8:44 pm
Enrique, I understand where you’re coming from. But please understand, I was not personally attacking Daub. I complimented him in my post, and I did not ask for him to take down the video, even though I decided to support Suttle. Just because I have decided to support Suttle does not mean that I’m not appreciative of Hal or dislike him.
However I do not agree with the choice of outsourcing the work, and to a company that ripped the Obama website. This is not effective design, but reactive design. I simply don’t agree with it.